Category talk:Trust

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Trust Template

Thought I'd put a clean template up here for myself and anyone else who may want to add Trusts when they come out:

|-
! colspan="4" |
{{Trustbox
|color=
|Name=
|Image=
|Spells=
|Abilities=
|Weapon Skills=
|Acquisition=
|Special=
|Synergy=
}}

-- FaeQueenCory (talk) 10:49, 6 August 2015 (EDT)


Name Links

K.... So, I don't see why they exist. Like at all.
The pages they link to have no Trust info (as they link to NPC and NM pages) and I think it's inconvenient to have to click to find info. (As in I'm kinda against adding Trust info to those pages, as it just spreads things out and makes info harder to come by. That's why I made the template as it is now, to put all the info on ONE page. Without the need to brows subpages.)
I've been gathering Trust info for months and have a shitton of it now. So I'm in the process of adding it all, but first I went through and updated where and what all the Trust come from.

So currently, all Trusts have how to obtain them and where and what 100% up-to-date. (which I think is the most important info for people)
Just have to compile all their abilities now. (a monumental task.... one that I've been putting off as well as having a lack of time for.) -- FaeQueenCory (talk) 17:43, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Some of those links were meant to cover pages nothing was linking to, like Mayakov's (I've had a bit of a daily routine to go over the special pages listing articles that link to nothing, that nothing links to, uncategorized and wanted ones, and trying to do something about at least one for each of those categories), and didn't necessarily have to be about the Trust specific, but more about the NPC's general information - as an example, here's the page for Dalzakk - doesn't even have a Trust alter ego and appears in few quests an missions, but it's still nice to have info like that, and to encourage it by creating the corresponding links. Loona (talk) 18:06, 20 May 2016 (UTC)


I don't think that the Trust page would really be the place, as it would generate confusion. (Trust me on that part... sometimes people get befuddled by the most obvious things, and then will proceed to bitch about the lack of something. Even if that thing exists.)
So a user would go to the Trust page, see a link on a trust and they'd think "ah, more info than what is here must be there" but then when they get there, there's nothing Trust and it's about the NPC... they then proceed to rant and rave about how much of a lack of information is... even though it was (will be) on the page they clicked away from.
I am right there with you for having as much link and direct to relevant info as possible... It's largely my defense of Armor Set pages.
But I also have first hand accounts of people just not reading... let alone navigating. So something like these links on the Trusts would only lead to butthurt and confusion.
At least more than there is without them. smh -- FaeQueenCory (talk) 18:58, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps a decent compromise would be to have the link text be something like "NPC Information"?... I wonder about the likes of Vailaineral and what may have justified making him a Trust alter ego... Having the link visible in the section, but clearly distinct from anything related to gameplay mechanics, could be useful to check that sort of info quickly, and encourage people to share what they know/remember with minimum preparation time. Loona (talk) 01:25, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

See, that spreads out information. Which is something I think we should not do, as in: we should consolidate info as much as possible.
(And is what the other wiki does... and that's just... not good. IMO, it's better to have one click for everything. And pages like MBCNMs, MTs, Ambuscade, Mog Garden, Sinister Reign, Vagary... Basically the pages I have either made, been a part of the planning, or personally structured. And would if we could have /rewards pages be just a part of the main page.... As we had with Unity, but it just causes those pages to slow down due to the massive amount of info and images on the page. Escha Rewards and even Nolan's page are good example of what I'm talking about. Even this page has a bit of comparative lag.)

Having a link to the NPC/NM pages would do just what you've stated (what I bolded), which also ties in to my experience with people thinking that information isn't present... Someone would add a bit about the Trust to one person... people would either see that for one person, or would click the name expecting more information than what is here, and then would be all butthurt over their lack of reading skills.
Or more aptly, be befuddled by taking the link that is irrelevant to what they were looking for.
This is why if you use the search bar, there will be two redirect pages that are near identical... the only difference is that the second word isn't capitalized. (Because people have complained that links to the category don't exist and the search doesn't work. For real. That has happened. Multiple times. And that's just my personal experience.)
So when making structure edits, we always have to think of the lowest common denominator: people who just click stuff and don't read.

That being said. Should anyone be curious about a Trust's NPC... The search bar is at the top of the page. And people who are curious enough are smart enough to highlight and copy&paste.

On this note too, there's something that's always bothered me... that I did a little with in regards to SR: we have an NPC and a NM page for a lot of people... And those should really be merged. NPC info at the top, NM below. (See Arciela for what I'm talking about)

On the other hand.... The template could be changed to something like this:

Trust Special.png
Trust NPC Spells Abilities Acquisition
{{{Name}}}
[[File:{{{Image}}}]]

{{{Spells}}}

{{{Abilities}}}

{{{Acquisition}}}

Weapon Skills

{{{Weapon Skills}}}

Non-Trust NPC: [[{{{NPCname}}}]]
Special Features:
Blah

Trust Synergy:
Bloobloobloo

-- FaeQueenCory (talk) 12:47, 25 May 2016 (UTC)


About the NPC and NM page for a lot of characters... well, there are also (S) and (A) versions of several - it would probably get really confusing to tackle them all in the same page. Off the top of my head an NPC can have the following aspects:

  • present day NPC (whether you can interact with the regularly or in cutscenes only)
  • combat counterpart (ex.: Volker in the last Bastok mission, Ayame in heroine's Combat, Zazarg in Besieged, etc... not to mention Maat's multiple job counterparts... and how different, if at all, is BLU limit break Raubahn from ToAU mission Raubahn, for example?...)
  • Shadowreign version
  • Abyssea version
  • Trust alter ego (regular and either II or (UC) version)

For some it's probably too much info to keep in a single place while avoiding confusion (for Zeid there's at least 3 combat versions, since I don't think his Trust selves have all the skills his Bastok boss self does?), but it makes some sense to enable linking between them, thus why many pages have disambiguation sections that are easy enough to find. And the ability to create links easily between pages that already exist is one of the strong points of wikis, as is the ability to turn something into a link allowing you to track how often that happens for a given term and helping to figure if it should be a separate page or something that could be addressed in some other way. As it stand, I'm not even arguing about the possibility of moving Trust behavior pages, just to enable links to the NPC info, since the Trust alter egos don't have pages of their own where a disambiguation page could be applied, something as simple as: "See also: <name link> (NPC information)".

On the topic of duplicated content, just the other day I noticed that the nation mission 5-2 pages are practically identical - perhaps a separate page should be made to cover their common content?

As for this page itself, more than the character links, I'm worried about the page's formatting, since the 2 columns for Trust info stretch the page horizontally a lot, which is annoying to navigate (for every other page you can scroll down to see more, here one has to scroll sideways). Loona (talk) 15:10, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Multiple versions of NM versions is pretty easy, ala:

Listings by Zone
Zone Rewards Abilities Spells
  [[]]
     Sinister Reign
Information Needed
  • High Magic Evasion
Information Needed
Level Aggro Link Spawns DB HP MP DEF EVA Susceptible Resists
    1 FFXIDB Icon v3.png Question Question    
Assisted By Title Absorbs Immune
Ygnas  
Zone Rewards Abilities Spells
  [[]]
     Sinister Reign
Information Needed
  • High Magic Evasion
Information Needed
Level Aggro Link Spawns DB HP MP DEF EVA Susceptible Resists
    1 FFXIDB Icon v3.png Question Question    
Assisted By Title Absorbs Immune
Can summon a Naakual to use a TP move after which it will despawn moves are as follows  


Taken from Arciela, that's two "combat forms" that were originally two separate pages, same with any of the AAs.
So multiple combat versions is a nonissue and can all be on one page.

As for Vana'diel, Shadowreign Vana'diel, and Abyssean versions... those should all be separate I think. As they are different people. (Or potentially different people with the case of the past. Though merging [S] pages into their normal page wouldn't be a terrible idea.)

5-2 and I think it was 3-2 too? Are nigh identical because that's what SE did. (The Three Nation missions are 3-2 and the Shadow Lord fight is 5-2. And while near identical in content, ARE separate quests with unique descriptions in game, hence why they are separate here.)

As for the size, that's an issue with your resolution. I'm betting you're less than 1300? That's the resolution on my phone, and neither my comp or tablet have any issue with rendering it.
I looked into using max-width for the charts, but as that doesn't really do a min-width... or rather, using a min-width would defeat the whole point of the max-width in the first place... It just squishes everything far too much to be readily viewable.
As in one to two words a line squished. So it was decided that it would just be better to have people on low resolutions deal with having to scroll right slightly. Since having it look bad and be hard to read would hurt everyone, the minor inconvenience with scrolling to the side slightly for a minor group of people was deemed the better outcome. The needs of the many and all that. -- FaeQueenCory (talk) 23:44, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Trust-specific notes

  • Ravenous Assault - Single target drain?
  • Sinner's Cross - Single target damage
  • Frenzied Thrust - Single target damage, closed off Black Halo to make Transfixion. Hexa Strike made Light with it. Fragmentation/Transfixion
  • Open Coffin - Single target damage, failed to skillchain with Black Halo but he still used it?
  • Start from Scratch - Resets TP, removes debuffs, gains dark aura
  • Hemocladis - Unclear effect
  • Thundaja MB

I don't have the time to make the page for it and need to play around with it more. --Byrthnoth (talk) 16:50, 3 April 2017 (EDT)



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