User talk:Loona

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--Spicyryan (talk) 18:51, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

You're welcome. I thought I'd fixed the WG page enough to make all the NPCs visible, bit apparently that got updated while I was making my 2nd edit... still, baby steps forward are still steps forward. But just to make sure, the templates used in the Jeuno pages are acceptable to use elsewhere, right?. Looking forward to help make this place more useful for older content, even if it's just making sure stuff is properly linked. Loona (talk) 08:30, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Yeah that was me on WG. I banged it out really quick after I saw you trying to figure it out. Most of it was using the replace command in a word processor. I just use Notepad++.

Yes, Jueno zones, Windurst Waters, etc are good. --Spicyryan (talk) 14:31, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

You are doing great work. Thank you for working on links and categorization --Spicyryan (talk) 02:57, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks - I like that this place bothers to update with new game info, so I just try to help make the older info easier to find and update. Between that and the fewer ads than the alternatives, it seems worthwhile to try and make it the primary reference for info on the game in general. So thanks for all the prior work put into it. Loona (talk) 08:05, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

That is exactly the reason I started doing this. :) --Spicyryan (talk) 10:21, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Appropriate page names

Item pages should be abbreviated similar to how an item would appear in someone's in-game inventory. See Hiza. Haramaki +1 as an example. This means Chevalier's Cuirass should be the redirect to Chev. Cuirass, and the typo page Chevlaier's Cuirass is correctly a redirect but should go to Chev. Cuirass to avoid being a double redirect.

> I just think the wiki shouldn't always be bound by the limitations of FFXI's inventory display, so when both a shortened and full name of a page exist, the shorter one might as well redirect to the full version - I'not bothering to otherwise create new full versions for everything, there's enough work to be put into ensuring the existing content can be reached as is. Loona (talk) 14:44, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

The issue is the parser tools I use to create new pages spit out the page as the abbreviated name. Every page on this wiki is going by that naming scheme so at this point in time it seems silly to change just one page but nothing else. Funkworkz (talk) 15:09, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Is that the same tool that creates the "<spell name> (Scroll)" pages which often don't link to their FFXIAH.com counterparts? Any chance of tweaking that issue? Loona (talk) 15:23, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Yeah I will look into that. I am not sure how many new scrolls they will create though. Funkworkz (talk) 15:26, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

I should add, a lot of pages are out of date because there is no easy way for us to save additional information that has been added to a page. For instance, Hizamaru Somen +1 is a page that was generated. Sulevia's Mask +1 is a page that additional information was added to it. We would lose all of that information if we were to simply re-import all (scroll) pages to fix the links to AH.com. This is also why a lot of stack sizes are incorrect, because they changes SO many in the same update. Funkworkz (talk) 15:29, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

I noticed the scroll issue when checking the Dead End page list, and in the very least most of not all the Absorb scroll pages suffer from the issue, which lead to to tweak one (turned Absorb-ACC (Scroll) into Scroll of Absorb-ACC IIRC), which fixed the FFXIAH link, but it's a bit troublesome to apply to every case manually - I think it doesn't apply to some, like Bard scrolls, I think, but it's been a while since I checked and saw an exception. If a script creates duplicates, the ones that don't work can just be turned into redirects, which is a quicker process. As for a script modifying content, isn't it possible to check for data like date of the last edit before overriding an existing page? Loona (talk) 15:35, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

This issue appears to have been fixed. If you give me a list of scrolls that do not properly link I can fix the pages to link correctly. Funkworkz (talk) 15:43, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

No there is no way to check a page automatically before importing a dump file, unless it is done manually. Funkworkz (talk) 15:44, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

PS: This is what you add to the template for links to properly work. (change the item number of course)

|ffxiah=4886/absorb-acc
|ffxidb=4886

Funkworkz (talk) 15:51, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Discord

We now have a discord channel for the wiki. This would be a great way to talk to each other. The link for it is either on the main page under community or in the side bar near the forums link. Come join us! --Spicyryan (talk) 13:37, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Might be tricky, since the edits I apply are between other tasks at quieter moments, so I end up preferring more asyncronous way to communicate, like forums and messages like these, but I'll keep that in mind, thanks. Loona (talk) 16:03, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

:( okay --Spicyryan (talk) 16:11, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Links in descriptions

It seems like a gross waste of time to change description text into linked text like on the alchemy 30 kit. The missing info still is eventually needed anyway so it looks like: Cook. Kit 30 for example. --Spicyryan (talk) 13:50, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

It's mostly a quick way of making sure a page that links to nothing does with minimal fumbling about with templates and info I may lack, so at a later time it's easier to associate related pages through the "what links here" feature. My primary self-inflicted task on the wiki is making sure stuff can be found through links and categories while reducing red links - once nothing is entirely isolated and therefore can be found naturally without relying much on the SpecialPages category, then it's simpler to enhance the pages with standard templates and whatnot. There's a lot of ground to cover, so my near-daily wiki "kata" involves going to "Special pages" and making sure there are no dead or double redirects, addressing a dead-end page, an orphaned page, an uncategorized page, and a wanted page, to -1 the amount of items in the respective lists (as well as removing at least one "???" red link out of the hundreds of pages that have those, since it's the most "wanted page" in the wiki, which makes no sense given how diverse the uses are for those) - along the way I address any other issues I find I think I can deal with in a relatively short amount of time. If/when structural issues like those cease to be a problem, it make more sense for me to be more thorough with formatting, info completion and whatnot. I guess it's a bit of personal guerilla warfare compared to the grand strategy plans in stuff like Funk's tasks list, but I figure it must be done, so that this wiki can gradually enrich its coverage of older content, not just the more recent and endgame-inclined stuff as it has the reputation to do. Personal preferences and time management, I guess. Loona (talk) 14:06, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Yes, but it is still wasted and inconsistent since nothing else does that.
If you filled in the template for the NPC vendor and ignored the other half of the page from the other items template that links the synth it is used in. Since people could just type it from the item description temporarily. You could just change the gil each paste of it and be done with such a series of items in no time. Instead of leaving behind stopgap measures everywhere.
Don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing rather than suggesting a more productive use of your time. I am glad for any edits to enhance the overall approach. Just that such a change over an easy one to fix the problem seems like a waste of your time. I would go and spam a bunch of the synth kits in response to this, but since you aren't in Discord (yet!) you wouldn't know that we are talking today about using an icon (and some possible changes) to simplify certain things in templates and to reduce the length and size of them. --Spicyryan (talk) 14:24, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Being thorough about that sort of thing means finding not only the vendor, but also other means of acquisition like login campaign points, and as my first stop in my edit rounds I guess I tend to start with a light effort... I guess it doesn't help with some of the first pages in the dead-end pages list are meme pages (is anyone actually attached enough to these to keep them around?... if it were up to me I'd gladly delete them... I guess another way to clear them would be to have them link to each other so they'd stop appearing in the dead-end page list, but I'm wearing of dignifying them by adding more stuff to them...) or news stuff I can't edit, or stuff I don't feel I know enough about to, again, start what's usually a round of quick edits and updates with a major research and editing effort - a lot of stuff like that, considering the alphabetic order has recently made the alchemy kits (and the ammo bundles before that) as the remaining articles in the first page of the list I feel I can do something with... - Loona (talk) 14:41, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Hey! We like our meme pages around here!

As for something like login points. Yeah, outside of a note that it is occasionally offered from them (behemoth PI and such) I skip right over that. The point is to not be thorough and just get something that wasn't there before there quickly and move on rather than links without substance. No one cares the date a wedding band was deprecated or what every month an item was available from login points. It serves no one to worry about that sorta thing. --Spicyryan (talk) 16:04, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

I thought these were the pages people like around here. (I do wish there was a simple way to generate a version of that list filtered to only cover pages that still have red links in them, or are uncategorized, etc...)

Anyway, it's weird for me for an item page to exist but there not being information on how to get it, or worse: the page exists, but the item's no longer available, and there's no context for that. A sense of history helps to make sense of that kind of stuff, and if the "whats" and "whens" are covered, people can wonder about the "whys" on their own from there. In a way I figure clarifying that sort of info shows some respect for whomever put in the effort to cover such items in the wiki in the first place. Anyway, that kind of stuff is sort of secondary and incidental to what I'm focusing on around here for now, it just gets some questions out of the way once it's clarified and covered for posterity. - Loona (talk) 16:24, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

You could spend a lifetime worrying about the trivial things. Like the date that leaping boots were grandfathered and added to a BCNM instead of Leaping Lizzy, but that is not important :P

Our item pages are generated each update manually, but mostly automatically. This is a plus as anyone can just edit a new page. Clopedia just doesn't have the page at all for many things, and this is our biggest advantage and why these pages exist.

Anyway, join us in Discord! --Spicyryan (talk) 18:16, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

---

Thanks for fixing stuff still, Loona. --Spicyryan (talk) 11:11, 21 February 2018 (EST)

I'm not sure anyone else is applying these sort of tweaks regarding red link and pages that won't be found without resorting to the special pages lists, so I pitch in once in a while. Ideally I'd like to move on to stuff like having lists of "???" points and other selectable spots in area pages, links to absolute upgrades in gear pages, and links to any NPCs involved in quest and mission pages, but it would seem pointless when some foundations in the wiki still need work. Loona (talk) 11:18, 21 February 2018 (EST)

Luckily a lot of ??? links are being removed as time goes on. When we go over abyssea adversaries I am sure that will take most of the remaining ones out with the last being on various quest and mission pages.

Otherwise, yeah we have a lot of red link pages that either should be made or shouldn't be links :/ --Spicyryan (talk) 11:41, 21 February 2018 (EST)

My usual tweak routine around here is to check the Special pages sections' Broken redirects, Double redirects, Orphaned pages, Uncategorized pages and Wanted pages and work on one of each, and since the Uncategorized one always has "???" at the top, I also check what's linking there and work on one of those, usually quests - most cases seem to be NM or item pages where the "link" is actually a part of a template, and tweaking that to address that particular case might fix a bunch of instances at once, but I haven't had an "initiative burst" big enough to look into that and try to fix it myself, like that one time with the (dual) elementals or similar cases, and for all I know the template page might be locked.

I do keep wondering about the "Damage types" page though - it's the most-linked to red link in the site and seems mechanically relevant (not to mention it's addressed indirectly in other pages, like the icons on the physical spells for Blue Mage), but i never quite got the hang of how calculations worked out for the blunt/piercing/slashing damage types and the mobs that make that relevant - if I were to try and fill that (which would affect just about every mob family category page in the wiki), my primary resource would be the other wiki, which wouldn't feel quite right, so so much for working my way from the biggest issues to the smallest - thus I guess I kinda do things the other way around in small doses, until all that's left are big researched efforts, like outpost supply runs or book NMs (plenty of orphaned links about that sort of thing...) - Loona (talk) 11:54, 21 February 2018 (EST)

User Pages and incorrect Spelling

Please stop making redirects for stuff people misspelled on their personal pages. Fell free to go into he user page and correct the red links the right way. You'll wind up making 10k links for stuff that doesn't actually exist. I went in and fixed a ton of Assault Missions the other day on user pages because I saw you make a redirect for one and knew 49 others were incoming from you.Darvamos{Chiaia} (talk) 22:17, 13 March 2018 (EDT)

Monster Rearing

• It looks like every monster family you're evolving is being added as an exception to the rule; I think we need to better define what the rule actually is before every monster is an exception.
• See if you agree with this: "Baby" forms of monsters evolve at ★☆ stars (with the previously-listed exceptions like Mandragora Sprout and Dragon Hatchling). Adult forms of monsters evolve at ★★☆ stars.
  • The page already has something to this effect if you read "starter-tier" as "baby" instead.
  • The talk page notes talk about ★★☆ being the norm.
• --Shynoe (talk) 14:57, 13 April 2022 (EDT)

• • The evolution section only mentions the starter-tier and ★☆ stars - if it were to specify that the adult forms tend to require ★★☆, I'd feel less of a need to mention the exceptions I've come across, as I still feel fairly new to this, and have assumed ★☆ is the default at all stages - if may be handy to be explicit about the default in the next stage - until then, I figure it can't hurt to mention the cases where ★☆ does not apply. - Loona (talk) 22:09, 19 April 2022 (EDT)