User:Mougurijin

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Calculating Magic Damage

Order of Calculation...

Here are all the known terms, in the order I understand them to be...

1) D
2) Cumulative magic bonus (for spells of matching element when cast within 60 seconds after Comet or -ja)
3) MTDR
4) Staff Bonus
5) Affinity
6) Resist(+ SDT -- forced base resist value to a certain element, and probably forced "un-resists" too)
7) Magic Burst
8) MB Bonus (job trait + gear + atma + AMII spells)
9) Klimaform Bonus (SCH AF3+2 feet)
10) Day + Weather + Twilight Cape
11) MAB(+ M.Crit) / MDB
12) Goetia +2 Set Bonus
13) TMDA (damage taken- + mdt- -- value is /256)
14) Ebullience
15) Hpemde double damage taken
16) Phalanx
17) Stoneskin remaining HP
= DMG

(Shinryu's wings folded in stance is a new term, it's value is 0.7 (-30%), and it's calculated somewhere between Goetia +2 set bonus and Ebullience)

Calculation of D...

Here is what I understand for calculating the initial D term...

cSTAT = Caster's STAT (cINT or cMND)
tSTAT = Target's STAT (tINT or tMND)
dSTAT = cSTAT - tSTAT (dINT = cINT - tINT; dMND = cMND - tMND)

dSTAT below the floor (minimum) dSTAT value
IF (dSTAT <= "[email protected] dSTAT") THEN...
D = "[email protected] dSTAT" * "Sub M" + V
D = "[email protected] D"

dSTAT less than 0, but greater than the floor dSTAT value
IF (dSTAT < 0) & (dSTAT >= "[email protected] dSTAT") THEN...
D = dSTAT * "Sub M" + V

dSTAT equal to 0
IF (dSTAT == 0) THEN...
D = V

dSTAT greater than 0, and less than or equal to the inflection point dSTAT value
IF (dSTAT > 0) & (dSTAT <= "[email protected] dSTAT") THEN...
D = dSTAT * "M" + V

dSTAT greater than the inflection point, and less than the cap dSTAT value
IF (dSTAT > Inflect point) & (dSTAT <= "[email protected] dSTAT") THEN...
D = "[email protected] dSTAT" * M + (dSTAT - "[email protected] dSTAT") * "Inflect M" + V

dSTAT above the cap (maximum) dSTAT value
IF (dSTAT >= "[email protected] dSTAT") THEN...
D = "[email protected] D"

Black Magic: Elemental - Single-Target Nukes

Single Target: Tier I V M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Sub M (@dINT<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT
Stone 10 1.0 7 -5 ~ -6 0.5 26 16 0.5 42 48
Water 16 1.0 11 -9 ~ -10 0.5 41 25 0.5 66 75
Aero 25 1.0 18 -13 ~ -14 0.5 60 35 0.5 95 105
Fire 35 1.0 26 -17 ~ -18 0.5 81 46 0.5 127 138
Blizzard 46 1.0 34 -23 ~ -24 0.5 106 60 0.5 166 180
Thunder 60 1.0 45 ? 0.5 138 78 0.5 216 234
Single Target: Tier II V M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Sub M (@dINT<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT
Stone II 78 1.0 0.5 173 95 0.5 268 = 285
Water II 95 1.0 0.5 208 113 0.5 321 = 339
Aero II 113 1.0 0.5 246 133 0.5 379 = 399
Fire II 133 1.0 0.5 288 155 0.5 443 = 465
Blizzard II 155 1.0 0.5 333 178 0.5 511 = 534
Thunder II 178 1.0 0.5 388 210 0.5 598 = 630
Single Target: Tier III V M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Sub M (@dINT<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT
Stone III 210 1.5 1.0 n/a n/a n/a 681 314
Water III 236 1.5 1.0 n/a n/a n/a 767 = 354
Aero III 265 1.5 1.0 n/a n/a n/a 856 = 394
Fire III 295 1.5 1.0 n/a n/a n/a 946 = 434
Blizzard III 320 1.5 1.0 n/a n/a n/a 1037 = 478
Thunder III 345 1.5 1.0 n/a n/a n/a 1152 = 538
Single Target: Tier IV V M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Sub M (@dINT<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT
Stone IV 381 2.0 1.5 n/a n/a n/a 1553 = 586
Water IV 410 2.0 1.5 n/a n/a n/a 1686 = 638
Aero IV 440 2.0 1.5 n/a n/a n/a 1820 = 690
Fire IV 472 2.0 1.5 n/a n/a n/a 1964 = 746
Blizzard IV 506 2.0 1.5 n/a n/a n/a 2114 = 804
Thunder IV 541 2.0 >1.541 n/a n/a n/a 2297 = 878
Single Target: Tier V V M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Sub M (@dINT<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT
Stone V 626 ~2.299
Water V 680 ~2.299
Aero V 734 ~2.335
Fire V 785 ~2.299
Blizzard V 829 ~2.299
Thunder V 874 ~2.299


Black Magic: Elemental - Multiple-Target Nukes

Multiple Target: Tier I V M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Sub M (@dINT<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT
Stonega 56 1.0 0.5 35 0.5 126 105
Waterga 74 1.0 0.5 46 0.5 166 138
Aeroga 93 1.0 0.5 60 0.5 213 180
Firaga 120 1.0 0.5 78 0.5 276 234
Blizzaga 145 1.0 0.5 95 0.5 335 = 285
Thundaga 172 1.0 0.5 113 0.5 398 = 339
Multiple Target: Tier II V M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Sub M (@dINT<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT
Stonega II 201 1.0 0.5 113 0.5 427 = 339
Waterga II 232 1.0 0.5 133 0.5 498 = 399
Aeroga II 266 1.0 0.5 155 0.5 576 = 465
Firaga II 312 1.0 0.5 178 0.5 668 = 534
Blizzaga II 350 1.0 0.5 210 0.5 770 = 630
Thundaga II 392 1.5 1.0
Multiple Target: Tier III V M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Sub M (@dINT<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT
Stonega III 434 1.5 1.0
Waterga III 480 1.5 1.0
Aeroga III 527 1.5 1.0
Firaga III 589 1.5 1.0
Blizzaga III 642 1.5 1.0
Thundaga III 697 1.5 1.0
Multiple Target: -ja V M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Sub M (@dINT<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT
Stoneja 719 ~2.299
Waterja 782 ~2.299
Aeroja 844 ~2.335
Firaja 902 ~2.299
Blizzaja 953 ~2.299
Thundaja 1005 ~2.299


Black Magic: Elemental - Multiple-Target Nukes (continued)

Multiple Target: Tier IV V M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Sub M (@dINT<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT
Stonega IV 754 1.5
Waterga IV 813 (1.5)
Aeroga IV 875 2.0
Firaga IV 956 2.0
Blizzaga IV 1022 2.0
Thundaga IV 1090 2.0
Multiple Target: Tier V V M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Sub M (@dINT<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT
Stonega V
Waterga V [1374] >0
Aeroga V
Firaga V 1520 >0
Blizzaga V 1489 >0
Thundaga V 1572 >0


Black Magic: Elemental - Ancient Magic

Ancient Magic: Tier I V M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Sub M (@dINT<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT
Freeze 526 2.0 1698 = 586
Tornado 552 2.0 1724 = 586
Quake 577 2.0 1.5 1749 = 586
Burst 603 2.0 1775 = 586
Flood 630 2.0 1802 = 586
Flare 657 2.0 1829 = 586
Ancient Magic: Tier II V M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Sub M (@dINT<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT
Freeze II 710 2.0 1882 = 586
Tornado II 710 2.0 1882 = 586
Quake II 710 2.0 1882 = 586
Burst II 710 2.0 1882 = 586
Flood II 710 2.0 1882 = 586
Flare II 710 2.0 1882 = 586


Black Magic: Elemental - Special Magic

Special Magic V M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Sub M (@dINT<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT
Impact 939 ~2.335
Comet 964 ~2.299


Black Magic: Elemental - Helices

Helix spell V M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Sub M (@dINT<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT
Geohelix 25 (1.0) 181
Hydrohelix 25 (1.0) 181
Anemohelix 25 (1.0) 181
Pyrohelix 25 (1.0) 181
Cryohelix 25 (1.0) 181
Ionohelix 25 (1.0) 181
Noctohelix 25 (1.0) 181
Luminohelix 25 (1.0) 181


Black Magic: Dark - Bio

Dark Magic V M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Sub M (@dINT<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT
Bio 10 0 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Bio II 50 0 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Bio III 100 0 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Bio IV n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a


Black Magic: Other

Dark Magic V M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Sub M (@dINT<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dINT Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dINT
Kaustra ??? ???
Meteor 1650 (2.0)


White Magic: Divine Nukes

Banish spell V M [email protected] D [email protected] dMND Sub M (@dMND<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dMND Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dMND
Banish 14 1.0 39 25 0.5 64 75
Banish II 85 1.0 198 113 0.5 311 = 339
Banish III 198 1.5
Banish IV 290 2.0
Banishga spell V M [email protected] D [email protected] dMND Sub M (@dMND<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dMND Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dMND
Banishga 50 1.0 96 46 0.5 142 138
Banishga II 180 1.0 313 133 0.5 446 = 399
Banishga III 285 1.5
Holy spell V M [email protected] D [email protected] dMND Sub M (@dMND<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dMND Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dMND
Holy 125 1.0 280 155 0.5 435 = 465
Holy II 250 2.0


White Magic: Enfeebling - Dia & Diaga

Banish spell V M [email protected] D [email protected] dMND Sub M (@dMND<0) [email protected] D [email protected] dMND Inflect M [email protected] D [email protected] dMND
Dia 2 0 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Dia II 6 0 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Dia III 10 0 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Diaga 2 0 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Diaga II 6 0 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a
Diaga III 10 0 n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a


  • All the V values I have tested with dINT=0, so without any M values interfering.
  • Kaustra can give different V values for dINT=0, so that spell probably works differently.
  • The numbers in brackets in the tables above are numbers I previously wrote down from elsewhere, I haven't tested if they are correct yet.
  • "~" means roughly that value. These spells actually seem to need different M values even if the rough value is the same. I have more precise numbers for half of these, but I'm looking for an alternative system to explain them.
  • "=" means that the value is calculated, not actually reached and tested. For example: calculating Cap dINT using tried and tested cap D and inflection values.
  • Empty cells are there either because I haven't tested them yet, or I may know which value should go in the cell based on different tests but I want to test it specifically, or I'm just being lazy...

Monster Stats

Shinryu

Stats

INT = 113
MND = 102
SDT {Fire, Ice, Wind, Earth, Thunder, Water} = 1 -- no reduction
SDT {Dark, Light} = 1/2
MAB = 2.4 -- aka: 140 MAB
MDB = 1.7 -- aka: 70 MDB
TMDA = 256/256 -- no reduction

"Shinryu wings folded in stance" = 0.7 -- new magic damage calculation term

Initial Testing

I've been trying to determine Shinryu's stats related to magic damage calculation, but I'm having difficulty making use of Quick Draw, Bio III, and other spells to determine them.

1000 needles was completely resisted 10 times in a row, so I gave up with that.

Bio III (D=100) with MAB=1.28... this should deal 128 dmg if Shinryu has no damage mitigation. Casting Bio III on Shinryu did 4 dmg when his wings were open, 2 dmg when his wings were closed...

Nether Blast I've always had trouble getting reliable numbers on other mobs anyway, not helped by the fact I don't know how much MAB Diabolos is supposed to have, so I haven't tried this on Shinryu yet...

Quick Draw is supposed to be able to tell you a target's MDB, because it ignores TMDA (MDT-%)... Now there's several things that affect Quick Draw according to wiki, and apparently it's in this order:
1. Base Damage = [(Gun DMG + Bullet DMG) * 2]
2. Resist
3. Staff Bonus
4. Day | Weather
5. Player MAB / Target MDB

There's a few possible problems though: According to my tests with other spells, Resist would be calculated after Staff Bonus. Also, "SDT" (forced resist to specific elements) affects Quick Draw (tested with Water Shot on Sahagin) So casting Quick Draw doesn't necessarily tell you how much MDB the mob has, but tells you the combined amount of MDB and SDT... Another problem is whether phalanx affects Quick Draw too?

Well anyway, using Quick Draw on Shinryu...

COR99/SCH49, D=256 -- Suppressor Gun (DMG:51) and Oberon's Bullet (DMG:77) No Staff (or Affinity), Earthsday, no MAB: All 6 elements did 150 dmg... So this should mean there's no SDT, unless Shinryu has it for all those 6 elements. Also, they couldn't have been resists anyway, as even a 1/2 resist should mean 128 dmg or lower...

Next, in the same fight, I used Brew, so MAB+900 (*10.0)... All 6 elements now did 1505... 150*10=1500... So before I used Brew, MDB had reduced my spell to a value between 150.5 and 150.59~

Thunder Shot did 1352 dmg a couple of times, being Earthsday...

Well for these 3 numbers: 150, 1505 and 1352 dmg, it checks out fine if his MDB is 1.7 and he has no SDT or any kind of natural phalanx. When his wings were folded in the dmg didn't decrease, Quick Draw ignores whatever that is (which I'm guessing is "Damage Taken -%", so comes under TMDA term...)

Shinryu stats so far...

INT = ?
SDT {Fire, Ice, Wind, Earth, Thunder, Water} = 1 (none)
SDT {Light, Dark} = ?
MAB = ?
MDB = 1.7
TMDA {MDT-%} = ?/256 -- Wings folded in stance comes under either: TMDA, Phalanx, or a new term.

Stuff to try next:

  • Allow Shinryu to cast Ancient Magic spells on me with no MDB and with Auto-Reraise, adjusting my INT by large amounts, to find out his MAB
  • Once MAB is found, let Shinryu cast Ancient Magic of different elements to check for Affinity (do monsters/NMs ever have magic affinity?)
  • Once Affinity has been checked, calculate Shinryu's INT from his own spells.
  • Once Shinryu's INT is known, cast a variety of elemental nukes on Shinryu, to test TMDA for Shinryu.
  • Once TMDA is known for his wings open (spread out) stance, try to determine whether wings closed (folded in) stance is also part of TMDA.
  • Cast dark element spells on Shinryu, such as Impact or Comet, to test the difference between other elements, for SDT.
  • Once SDT is known, calculate Bio III again, to check if everything is correct.
  • Once all his stats are known, try to calculate his other spells.

Further Testing

...

Shinryu's Defensive Stance

MAB/MDB > "Shinryu defensive stance"

BLM99/RDM49 (no magic potency merits) + Primeval Brew
cINT = 999
MAB = 10.7 (1.4 + .1 + .15 + .05 + 9.0)
Thunder IV: Capped D = 2297
Day = Firesday

Here's two of my Thunder IV casts; one cast straight after the other.
First cast, then Shinru changed to defensive stance, then second cast...

Shinryu's wings still spread out...
Casting Thunder IV...
Thunder IV did 14457 dmg

D > MAB/MDB
2297 * (10.7 / 1.7) = 14457

Shinryu dives and folds in his wings...
Casting Thunder IV again...
Thunder IV did 10119 dmg

To check if a term before MAB/MDB is even possible, just checking if any whole number before MAB/MDB can give the correct damage result is the first test...

Test value > MAB/MDB
1608 * (10.7 / 1.7) = 10120
1607 * (10.7 / 1.7) = 10114

D > MAB/MDB > "Shinryu defensive stance"
2297 * (10.7 / 1.7) * 0.7 = 10119
(14457 * 0.7 = 10119)

"Shinryu defensive stance" > Ebullience

Caster = Me: SCH99/BLM49
cINT = 116 (102+14)
MAB = 1.24 (BLM30 trait only)
Ebullience = 1.2

Target = Shinryu
tINT = 113
MDB = 1.7
"Shinryu defensive stance" = 0.7

dINT = 3 (116 - 113)
Blizzard IV: D = 512 (3 * 2 + 506)
Day = Watersday

Here's my cast of Blizzard IV with Ebullience on Shinryu after he had dived and folded in his wings to his defensive stance...

Ebullience + Elemental Seal + Blizzard IV... did 313 dmg.

D > MAB/MDB > "Shinryu def. stance" > Ebullience
512 * (1.24 / 1.7) * 0.7 * 1.2 = 313

IF: D > MAB/MDB > Ebullience > "Shinryu def. stance" THEN:
512 * (1.24 / 1.7) * 1.2 * 0.7 = 312

Goetia +2 set bonus > "Shinryu defensive stance"

Caster = Me: BLM99/RDM49 (no magic potency merits) + Primeval Brew
cINT = 999
MAB = 10.66 (1.4 + .07 + .08 + .11 + 9.0)
M.Crit = (MAB) + .15 (10.81)
Goetia +2 set pieces = 5/5

Target = Shinryu
tINT = 113
MDB = 1.7
"Shinryu def. stance" = 0.7

Blizzard II: Capped D = 511
Blizzard II: MP Cost = 77 MP
Day = Earthsday

Here's a table for the damage possibilities of me casting Blizzard II while Shinryu is in defensive stance:
A > B -- "Goetia +2 set bonus" > "Shinryu def. stance"
B > A -- "Shinryu def. stance" > "Goetia +2 set bonus"

Goetia +2 set bonus Conserve MP reduction Reduced MP cost A > B B > A Actual MP spent Actual damage
(1 + 0/8) = 1.0 (1 - 0/16) = 16/16 (77 MP) 2242 2242 (77 MP) 2242 dmg
(1 + 1/8) = 1.125 (1 - 1/16) = 15/16 72 MP 2522 2522
(1 + 2/8) = 1.25 (1 - 2/16) = 14/16 67 MP 2803 2802
(1 + 3/8) = 1.375 (1 - 3/16) = 13/16 62 MP 3083 3082
(1 + 4/8) = 1.5 (1 - 4/16) = 12/16 57 MP 3364 3363
(1 + 5/8) = 1.625 (1 - 5/16) = 11/16 52 MP 3644 3643 52 MP 3644 dmg
(1 + 6/8) = 1.75 (1 - 6/16) = 10/16 48 MP 3924 3923 48 MP 3924 dmg
(1 + 7/8) = 1.875 (1 - 7/16) = 9/16 43 MP 4204 4203
(1 + 8/8) = 2.0 (1 - 8/16) = 8/16 38 MP 4485 4484

So the correct order seems to be: A > B ("Goetia +2 set bonus" > "Shinryu def. stance")

I also checked that none of the M.Crit damage possibilities are similar to the above.

So...
MAB/MDB > "Goetia +2 set bonus" > "Shinryu def. stance" > Ebullience



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